Tuesday, January 20, 2009
Lee a tragic hero?
So we talked about in class today that Lee is a tragic hero, his success with military command and Napoleonic tactics made him the famous general he was, and it was those same napoleonic tactics that caused his downfall. Here's where the deviation from your "Hamlet-esk" character comes in. Lee wasn't killed by his error, his men were, and they loved him for it. My answer in class was that yes he is a tragic hero, but now that I think about it I'm not so sure he really is. He seems similar to a tragic hero, but the number one difference seems to be while your normal tragic hero, hamlet, othello, etc. end up killing themselves, Lee ends up killing his men. Obviously I could be nitpicking, but I want to know what you guys think. Is Lee a tragic hero? Does that technicallity disqualify him, is it something else that makes him not a tragic hero or is he, in fact, a tragic hero? What do you all think?
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I dont think Lee is a "tragic hero" in the classic sense. I do think he is similar to other classical characters we have studied, however. His stubborness as a leader is similar to Achilles' character in The Iliad. I think he differs from Achilles in that Lee asserts himself constantly whereas Achilles asserts himself only when he deems necessary or pushed.
I dont think Lee fits the tragic hero persona because, as you pointed out, he is commanding but not directly involved in the combat. If it were more of a personal struggle for Lee, I think we could classify him as a tragic hero.
The qualities that make Lee a great leader and general also cause the confederates to lose the war. I don't think a character has to meet certain standards or be killed to be considered a tragic hero. A confederate loss was probably more painful for Lee than his own death would have been. He truly believed that god was guiding his army to victory and that the South could not be defeated. His fervent belief in god and his military tactics led to his defeat. Lee was admired for his confidence and passion for the confederate alliance, but these qualities led to the South's demise. What made Lee a great leader also blinded him from the realities of the war.
To an extent, he certainly does meet the criteria of tragic hero but you do bring up a good point Ed. He doesn't die, his men do. That unavoidable fact is what prevents him from earning the title of tragic hero. For Hamlet and Othello, they are the ones who directly pay for their mistakes, (outside of a few others, ex. Cassio and Desdemona). In Lee's case, his error results in the deaths not merely a few external characters, but thousands of men, whose lives are his responsibility. Certainly there is some emotional baggage that follows Lee, which is obvious when he blames himself, but it is not enough to classify him as a tragic hero.
I found one flaw in your argument, not all tragic heroes die due to their errors (an example of a tragic hero who does not die is Oedipus).
I agree with you in the sense that I also do not believe Lee is a tragic hero. However, I believe that he did make mistakes throughout the battle and he did realize the mistakes he made at the end.
Lee is not a tragic hero for the simple point that he does not die for his own actions. His men died for him, sacrificed "for the betterment of the whole". Also Lee was never directly involved in his battles, he never went on long killing sprees such as Achilles, nor did he charge the enemy face on like Chamberlain. He sat in the back, watched his "chess game" unfold, and did the best he could from the "coach's" seat. Although I am not trying to downplay Lee as one of the most important figures in Killer Angels or in the Civil War, he cannot truly be defined as a tragic hero.
Ed, I think you raise a good argument. I would have to say he is a tragic hero and here are my reasons. First, like all tragic heroes, General Lee has a tragic. While Hamlet has the inability to act, and Othello has jealousy, Lee is continuously basing his military career of his Napoleonic tactics. Second, while he does not die as a product of his flaw, his life is changed forever, and he ends up losing. From a purely literary perspective, he may not be a tragic hero, however, I think it is obvious he is the closest thing to a tragic military leader.
i definitely agree with Scott; if Lee's conflict were more personal, he would undoubtedly be classified as a tragic hero... As is, he is not the one killed, but in a sense, the ideals he fights for are.
i think my answer to the question is closest to Mikey's. He isn't a tragic hero in the literary sense, but he does contribute to the downfall of the ideas he stands for--and therefore he is tragic in some sense.
Ed, this takes me back to those mystical times of first tri junior year english. I do remember that coincidentally, many tragic heroes kill themselves, but I believe that one can be a tragic hero without an act of suicide. One of the main things that I remember from Tragedy class is that tragic heroes are put up on a pedestal, making their downfall that much more tragic. Oedipus in the beginning of the poem comes in and frees the kingdom. He is highly praised and made king, making his downfall quite tragic. In the case of General Lee, Shaara talks about how well respected Lee was. We even talked in class about him being venerated. He is put on a pedestal as a heroic General, however by the and of the book, he hits rock bottom. To me, General Lee screams tragic hero.
I feel as though he is a tragic hero to a certain extent. His actions did lose the war and he lost because he tried to do what he did best. But he didn't exactly suffer too much in end. Sure he lost men, but Virginia was the only reason he fought against the Union, not for specific ideals.
interesting point ed. I think where he separates from those other tragic heroes you speak of, he is also even more heroic. Because he is in charge of an entire army, and not just trying to overcome his internal issues, when his troops die, so does he. He has an inherent responsibility to protect his troops, as his success and failure is dictated by the success and failure of the people he leads. So sure, he does not resemble the tragic hero of ancient classics, but a more modern day take on a tragic hero is a perfectly acceptable label by my standards.
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